I've stopped posting on Brooke Adam's "The Plural Life" blog, for a number of reasons.
And now, I have stopped even reading it.
First and foremost, I stopped posting because of the personal toll the constant barage of meanness and hatred was taking on me. I was finding myself getting really depressed and unable to perform the functions of my own job in a way that adequately served parents and families. I was too distracted and upset.
Secondly, posters were personalizing their attacks more and more, with a vicious, "I want to hurt you, personally" tone. I find that repugnant. In my worst battles, with the most difficult of adversaries, I never see it as personal. It is idealogical. It is philosophical. It is plain old unrelenting loyalty to old ideas. It is many things, but it is never personal. And at the change of topic, or the end of the meeting, it is always cordial.
The posters on Brooke's blog fail to follow the most basic rules of civil discourse. Too often I found myself sinking to their level. Of either wanting to, or actually, attacking another poster, on a personal level.
I don't like that behavior. I abhor that behavior in myself.
And my third reason for leaving is the new "regulars". They seem to have appeared from out of the blue with no purpose save to attack the FLDS. They do not want to engage in discussion. They do not want to share ideas. They want to bash, slam, villify, and spread hate and ugly rumors. And worst of all they take unabshed pleasure inthe pain of the people of the FLDS faith. I find them to be the worst kind of internet "trolls". Some call them the "Kindred Spirits" because they seem to know one another from another place on the net and have banded together to be ugly and hurtful toward the FLDS, all the while chit-chatting with one another and sharing recipes, etc.. All as though their behavior is prefectly fine and acceptable. I want nothing to do with them.
The old group has always had posters on all sides of the issues raised. And some considerable ugliness, at times, but never this kind of abject hatred and total disregard for the feelings of those reading. Ron, Laurie, and Txbluesman, at their worst, cannot hold a candle to these creeps!
The final straw in deciding to not only not post, but to not even bother reading, is the kinds of blogs Brooke has been writing since her return from vacation. Brooke has developed a reputation as a reporter who deliberately tries to show the FLDS fairly, and has not joined the mob of journalists who play to the sensational. For that reason, Brooke has begun to enjoy the trust of the people in the FLDS community. Her blogs were basically unbiased and often showed a very human side of the FLDS people that regular news stories are not able to.
Many members of the community follow Brooke's blog. Some post to it. Some regularly. Not anymore.
When the personal writings of Warren Jeffs were made public, I wrote to Brooke and told her how disturbing this public viewing of what they consider very private writings of their Prophet is, to them. I know others conveyed the same sentiment to her. One by one the members of the FLDS community have dropped away from her blog. Yet Brooke continues to post items that are sensational and hurtful to people she claims to care for. I imagine she hasn't even noticed that she has lost Pliggy, Cheese, yuthehay, Rose, and others.
She has made no attempt to write anything about the sentiments of the FLDS people on this topic. She has made no appology for her topic choices. She has done nothing to mitigate the hurt she is furthering.
She has lost my respect, and following, for this, and the above reasons. I'll check in, from time to time, hoping she changes. But I'm not holding out any hope!
7 years ago
28 comments:
Hey, just because you're wrong in backing the FLDS doesn't mean you should leave the discussion at the Plural Life...
What Brooke posted was newsworthy, and she is a (supposedly) unbiased reporter, although I think that she panders to the FLDS too much.
Consider this for a second - if she is pissing off people on both sides, then there is hope for her to see the light and go after the FLDS crimes with a vengeance...
P.S. Sorry about your dog - that's tough on anyone...
P.P.S. You're still welcome at my blog...
P.P.P.S. Don't let the trolls get to you...
Bluesman, Thanks for the note!
We'll see......
Sorry the arguments on the blog were affecting your personal life and energy level. Hope the clouds clear for you...
Fly, I don't mean to imply that Brooke shouldn't write blogs that she finds interesting, or note worthy, or whatever...but I do think that knowing how the FLDS communty feels, and knowing how hard she has worked at being fair, it would seem that some acknowledgment of their perspective, of thelegitimacy of their perspective, would go a long way toward maintaining the trust she has worked at building...
Not do anything, destroys all the good work....
And I guess I had hoped for more from her...
I know the Kindred Spirits well, or Kindred Devils as I like to refer to them. They are there because they are trying to drive people like you away.
I'll be keeping up on the other blogs so maybe we will bump into each other here and there.
But I know what you mean about sinking to their level. I have to be careful of that too or it happens to me when I start fighting fire with fire.
Hi -
I agree wholeheartedly with your article about Brooke's blog. It's not pleasant even going there anymore. I may read her articles, and I scan the posters to see who is posting what, but usually a quick perusal shows that it's just the Kindred Devils, and I have no desire to read their hate-filled comments.
Thanks for giving Brooke's blog the chance - I tried to go and participate, but I just don't like being in the pig pen. My Father-in-law always said that when you associate with pigs, you don't rub off on them...they rub off on you.
A little folksy, but a good reminder.
That and the verse that says a man is known by the company he keeps - and I choose to be associated with more pleasant company.
I'm sorry things got so harsh for you - You have much wisdom to offer to those who are willing to learn.
I'm glad you have a blog and maybe you can become a reporter FOR the FLDS. :)
Best Wishes...
I stole this from Pliggy's blog - It's a good reminder for all of us...
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish." (Psalm 1)
By leaving Brooke's blog, we are leaving the seat of the scornful to those who fit the description.
(Thanks, Pliggy, for that timely reminder!)
:)
The reason I have rarely posted on most blogs, or on the articles that deal with polygamy is because a lot of the commenters engage in tedious bickering and nasty, angry personal attacks. I spent some time several years ago engaging on blogs in an effort to raise the level of discussion to other types of dialogue, and ultimately found it too draining and a waste of my time. I have appreciated your thoughtful comments when I've seen them here and there, and it is nice to have a voice of common sense, reason and compassion to counter some of the ridiculous or outlandish or most extreme haters, but it does take a lot of energy.
I have chosen not to post the WSJ documents on my blog, but I am not a reporter.
Sometimes people fail to understand that reporters have a responsibility to their paper as well as a position of trust in society to report matters of public interest. They have to ask the tough questions. Brooke Adams was willing to ask the tough questions of Texas officials that needed asking, and she was willing to open the way for the FLDS to tell their side of the story, too. Some people have assumed that meant she was "favoring" the FLDS, or that she was in their pocket or something stupid like that. That is very naive and doesn't allow for the fact that she is simply doing the ethical and honorable thing by doing deeper research and working hard to bring balance to her reporting. In doing so, her integrity in her reporting merited a level of trust.
That trust does not get violated when she reports something that is not favorable to the FLDS. It is equally inaccurate to assume that because she might report something that is unfavorable that she now "favors" those in opposition to the FLDS, or that she has betrayed the FLDS trust.
They may feel hurt by her recent posts, in which case they need to explain to her why they are hurt and listen to her in return explain why she considers the posts necessary or newsworthy. It should not be made a matter of loyalty or disloyalty.
For those of us who deal regularly with reporters, we expect only that they deal honestly with us, report what we say accurately, and are open to correction when they get something wrong. We do not expect anything beyond that.
You have to remember, too, that reporters have to weigh out what they are told against their research, evidence, contrary testimony, and draw their own conclusions. That has nothing to do with loyalty to any person or cause, but to the discipline of reporting as accurately and fairly as possible.
Frankly, I think she's done a good job with a very hard and controversial issue, one where almost everyone involved wants to draw lines in the sand and force loyalty oaths to prove which side you're on. The truth is, we know it's not that easy and it isn't so black and white, even though TXBluesMan might find it so.
Good luck to you!
Rericson, I meant to say more clearly than I did that I support you decision to not comment on Brooke's blog anymore. I rarely do, and it's precisely because it is too negative and angry. I hardly ever read the comments either. I will, however, continue to read the posts by Brooke as well as the tribune.
I personally don't like the new trend of newspapers to open their articles up for commentary because the comments too often cross the line of what should be associated with the news.
FYI, partial interviews of Doran and Long have been posted.
It appears that a Federal Grand Jury is investigating the FLDS...
There is more on my blog...
wow you haven't been on the internet long, have you? welcome to the world of internet chatting.
Truthfully R., I am disappointed in you for leaving Brooke's blog. Too many have permitted the "KS" to take it over. This is exactly what they wanted us to do. As you found out at the SL Trib comment board, it is useless to pose a question or a personal opinion. But that does not mean we cannot pop in with a nasty comment of our own once in a while to let them know we are still there.
I too become angry and permit the hate to upset me. In the past months, I have seen a rise in blood pressure and depression. But I will not give them the satisfaction of knowing they are having any effect or to think they will make me leave the blog.
I think the FLDS should be posting. They do not have to read the follow up comments, just let them know you are there.
Become trolls, give an opinion, then leave. Then laugh at them!
Carol,
Thank you for taking the time to comment, seriously. We'll see. Right now, I just need to stay away. I just figured I owed so many of you who are not part of the troll crowd an explanation.
There are other ways I can be helpful.
I can post all I want here. *smile*
Mary, I don't know If you'll be back to read this, but I want you to know that I tried to send you a note and it bounced. I used the email attached to your blog that clicking on "MPB" took me to.
Hi. I will take a look at my blog email. You can reach me by email at principlevoices at comcast.net. It will send you a thank you email in response but I will get your email. :o)
Carol,
If anything were to be gained by posting at Brooke's blog, it would be worth continuing to do so.
Everyone is pretty much polarized on this issue by now - no one is going to have their minds changed at this point.
Either you believe in the constitutional rights of the FLDS to worship as they see fit, or you believe they are child abusers in spite of the fact that CPS & LE turned the ranch upside down and found nothing to prove child abuse.
I learned awhile ago that when you stop banging your head against the wall, it doesn't hurt anymore. :)
There are more important things to spend our lives on than trying to convince the anti-FLDS folks that they are wrong. Hate and bitterness are more deeply ingrained in them than any desire to understand the FLDS and their culture, for I truly do believe it is a separate culture.
It's good to have you as a supporter of the FLDS. :)
As far as I'm concerned - let the haters have Brooke's blog. It's not any richer for it. She and/or Trent could rein it in and she chooses not to.
Silver, Carol, et al,
The reason I posted for so long is that I know there are many, many people who visit Brooke's blog, everyday. People who come out of curiosity, who nevr post, but hopefully, learn.
And if all they see is haters patting ech other on the back, they leave believing the negatives and ugliness that piqued their cuiosity affirmed.
So day after day we go on to offer a counter position...
I just am drained, right now....
I hope many of the good people, with open minds, continue to post.
When the craziness about the writings of Warren Jeffs dies down perhaps some of the members of the FLDS community will return. I hope so.
People like pliggy and cheese and others, offer a wonderful counterpoint to the idiocy!
Anyway, thank you all for taking the time to read my blatherings...
Bout time you wrote something to your blog! :)
I only want to address something from MPB
"They may feel hurt by her recent posts, in which case they need to explain to her why they are hurt and listen to her in return explain why she considers the posts necessary or newsworthy. It should not be made a matter of loyalty or disloyalty."
It is a matter of dignity. Those writing are personal and private, and the fact that they are public on any blog is deeply disturbing.
Just imagine your good father writing everything he thought about your mother and siblings on a personal basis becoming public because the government raided his bedroom.
Tell me you would dignify anyone who discussed it with your comments. I would never "listen to her reason it is newsworthy" I couldn't care less.
I understand your feelings, Pliggy, and I am certainly not condemning you for them. I was only trying to offer an explanation. I have known Brooke to be a very reasonable person, and a reporter with integrity, along with several other reporters I have dealt with over the years.
Yes, if it were my own father or someone I respected deeply, I would be hurt, and I probably wouldn't care about the reasons. You don't have to justify your feelings or your decision to cut her off, if that is what you feel to do. That is entirely your privilege.
There have been times in my own life when I felt so violated and betrayed that I had to pray real hard for charity, compassion and forgiveness because it wasn't always in me. Even so, that is the kind of person I want to be, merciful and compassionate, and willing to offer the benefit of the doubt and an opportunity to explain or make remedy.
I try to give that to other people, because I want other people to give that to me.
There is a big difference between charity and compassion; and dignity.
Brooke has had her chance to make an effort toward dignity. From my view she hasn't done so, not even an effort. If I were to ever consider her as you do "a reporter with integrity" (A VERY large leap for me, practically an oxymoron) She will have to make a better effort. I do hope for better in the future, but the past is what it is.
Pliggy,
I have to agree with you. I think that is what I was trying to say, in my earlier response to MPB.
I think if Brooke wrote something acknowledging the feelings, the sentiment, in the FLDS community, it would go a long way. She needs to validate, publically, your perspective. Even if she feels that the papers and discussion is also a valid angle to persue.
People, including the FLDS community, can simply not participate in those threads. I think most folks wouldn't have a problem with that. It is the abject failure to even acknowledge the other side of the coin, your side, that is extremely troubling, for me.
Rericson, Pliggy, I reposted Rericson's recent post about the depth of FLDS feelings about the clergy documents being made public on my own blog. Please go there: http://pluralwife.blogspot.com and read what I have to say about it.
I believe it was very treacherous of the state and Malonis (and whoever else was involved in this cabal) to attach those documents to depositions that would be made a part of public record. It was wrong and offensive.
Please know that I am not arguing your feelings in any way, nor do I feel your feelings are wrong or unjustified. I agree with your concerns about any of this material being made public or discussed in public forums.
From a PR perspective, it is vital that the FLDS continue to speak out. They are their own best representatives. They deserve to speak for themselves and not be defined by those who would wish evil upon them.
I was more concerned that the FLDS would withdraw from the public debate or would refrain from speaking to the tribune in the future, and I think that would be very unfortunate.
I have been assured that that will not happen.
Just so you know, I too know what it feels like to be the target of lies, nastiness, threats and slander. I have had my trust betrayed and violated. This, too, because of my belief in, and past practice of, plural marriage. I've had to deal with some very nasty, treacherous people, and press, over the years, and had my faith, my family, my appearance, my intelligence, and my spiritual feelings mocked and sexualized and demeaned. Brooke was not one of those; in my experience with her, she has woven a fine line, cared a great deal more than many other reporters about truth and accuracy, and approached her work with integrity. I am sorry that your experience has not been the same.
I agree there is a difference between charity and compassion, and dignity. It was hard for me to find that line at times (especially when I was the most hurt), and maybe still is (I tend to err on the side of forgiving others to my own detriment sometimes).
In any case, I just wanted you to know that while we may disagree, I do understand and sympathize.
Best, Mary
MPB,
The public has a right to know.
Warren made statements in those documents that amount to confessions of criminal actions.
The FLDS and its supporters have had plenty of opportunity to bring out items that are not complimentary towards CPS and the State, and have used the same to try to sway public opinion.
The fact that Warren made these dictations, and the dictations contain evidence make them news. Had the 'good father' written in his journal and gave examples of abuse or criminal activity, that too would be newsworthy, and unless Brooke is to become a mere PR representative for the FLDS she is obligated to report it.
I think Brooke is obligated by her responsibility as a journalist to report on the dictations. Several other reporters also reported on the dictations and quoted from them.
It would be difficult to be a reporter. She has taken a lot of criticism from just about everyone at one time or another, and yet she still presses on. Look at some of the really nasty comments on her own blog that are directed at HER? How would you like that? And yet, she lets people post those critiques about herself.
That would be tough.
I sympathize with Pliggy's feelings and I wasn't trying to antagonize or invalidate them, but I was trying to explain the role of the journalist, and the expectations the average person can have. I think we can hope to be treated fairly and quoted accurately (not misrepresented); we can't expect to control their articles, what they write, who they interview, or whether or not they believe what we tell them.
Bluesman, You're right, I would never delete posts that are a different or opposite opinion than mine. I will delete b.s. Without batting an eyelash!Pliggy was bringing up Native American use of peyote as an example of having an exception to the law(s), based on religious belief and practice.
Believe me, there isn't an ounce of racism in Pliggy! How he structures language is a reflection of the world he lives in. That's true for all of us. But as for his personal beliefs and actions, he is as fair and kind toward everyone as any individual I have ever met.
As for the documents, there is a real issue as to whether they will, ultimately, be a part of any of the cases brought. The legality of how they were gotten has yet to be tested. I believe that the various prosecutors involved realize they may end up being quashed.There will be much wrangling in the days to come over that issue.
In the meantime, there was a rush to get them into the public forum before any court made a ruling. The whole issue of whether there should be a trust fund set up was a red herring, the true intent was to get these documents into the public forum. Not for their value as "evidence", rather for their emotional value.
In getting them out, yes, they became news. Yes, Brooke has the obligation to report the news. And her news stories/articles should be just that. On the other hand, her blog is of a more personal, back story, nature. Knowing full well the emotional impact the release of these papers had on the FLDS community, if she is going to be true to her goal of presenting that "back story", she had an obligation to write about that 'side' of the news, as well. To acknowledge and validate the impact on the community. I hope she makes the decision to do that.
For me, this isn't as simple, as black and white, as some would paint it. Yes, laws were broken. Having the 'evidence', beyond the knowledge, of laws being broken, that allows for prosecution, was gotten in a way that may very well prove to have been illegal. That puts those who would prosecute back to ground zero.
In the meantime, this country, including Texas, has all sorts of bad law that needs to be addressed and changed. Not the least of which is taking government out of the equation concerning religious unions.
The other aspect of leaving Brooke's blog, at least as it currently functions, is the overwhelming presence of posters who want nothing more than a place to pat themselves on the back for their blind hate.
I saw one post where Ron said I left because there are now intelligent anti-flds posters and I can't handle that. That is patent B.S.
I have never shied away from legitimate discussion, including heated and intelligent. Neither have pliggy, and others who are disgusted and tired of the way Brooke's blog has evolved.
Good, intelligent, adversarial discussion is what generates new ideas and, ultimately, new partnerships for change.
Hate mongering brings about nothing but high blood pressure and the erosion of the spirit.
Regina said:
Believe me, there isn't an ounce of racism in Pliggy!
You may want to rethink that. I can provide example after example of racist posts by Pliggy... it took me only a few minutes to come up with several examples courtesy of Google...
Obviously blues has a different definition of "racism" than Regina and I do.
"But as for his personal beliefs and actions, he is as fair and kind toward everyone as any individual I have ever met."
And you thought I lived a sheltered life?
LOL
Pliggy said...
Obviously blues has a different definition of "racism" than Regina and I do.
"But as for his personal beliefs and actions, he is as fair and kind toward everyone as any individual I have ever met."
And you thought I lived a sheltered life?
LOL
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And at least your sense of humor wasnt stolen from you!
Hi to Fawn.
- Stamp
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