thoughts, whims, and delusions of a middle aged mama

Tuesday, March 10, 2009

FLDS: Persecution or Persecution Complex?

Persecution Complex:
An unfounded feeling that others have evil designs against one's well-being.
Persecution:
Others have evil designs against one’s well-being.

Lot’s of people do not like the FLDS.
Well, that’s a pretty benign statement, unless, of course, you happen to be an FLDS member. The closer you get, geographically, to the FLDS, the more overt the dislike becomes.
If you’re a waitress, you take a bit longer to give slightly less service. If you’re a cop, you write a ticket instead of give a warning. If you’re in the area, you drive through town staring. If you’re a clerk in the municipal building, you make them wait just a tad longer…for everything. If you’re a school child, you call them “dirty plygs”.
And worse.
If you are an FLDS mother, you teach your children that it is important to love everyone, all the while shielding them from the stares of strangers. Rushing them inside when a car drives by a bit too slowly. Quickly diverting their attention when a scantily clad woman enters the store you’re in. Teaching them to say their brother is their cousin when they go to school, knowing if they say otherwise, they will be mocked and bullied.
If you’re a young person in the FLDS it makes the job of loving everyone terribly hard. And terribly inconsistent with your experiences. It makes the job of trusting anyone outside of your community a monumental task.

If the entire history of the Mormon people is full of legitimate stories of Mormons being persecuted, and if much of the persecution has taken place in the lifetimes of people you know and love, it serves only to compound the distrust.
If every time you open a newspaper or listen to the radio, there are reports of people you know, and love, being described as despicable criminals, it makes it both terribly confusing and terribly hurtful.

If this has been a person’s life experience, and now, suddenly, they are being asked to interact with outsiders, it is understandable that there is very real apprehension. That the distrust is natural and real, and founded in having been hurt and watching loved ones be hurt.
Compound this with having lived in a relatively closed community with a subtle yet important difference in language and its use, from mainstream society. Understand that the outside world uses language in ways that are completely alien to the FLDS’ entire experience, and there is no guide book to teach about it. Imagine that sarcasm and innuendo and double entendres are not a part of someone’s experience, and they have to come into our world and navigate without understanding these common twists in how we use everyday language. Understand that those permutations of language have either never been there, or have slowly devolved as individuals have, in following their teachings, worked harder and harder at being straight forward, saying what they mean, and not involving themselves in duplicitous everyday behaviors, so there is no need to have a language system reflective of that. That even humor is straightforward, clean, and not made at the expense of another in demeaning ways.

So now you have people who have lived their entire lives knowing they were generally disliked and/or grossly misunderstood by the outside world. They have individually all experienced that dislike in their interactions with outsiders. Some more than others, but it is inescapable, all together. And these same people now find themselves in a situation where they are choosing to interact in order to help change this paradigm. So they do little things like come on-line to the blogosphere to ask questions of some, and give answers to others. Navigating in a world of language.
Navigating in a world where they are outnumbered by their detractors by an enormous margin. Challenged to try to help shift the thinking of their detractors, using language. Detractors who have themselves used ugly language directed at them.

Those that interact more, obviously begin to pick up on the nuances faster. After awhile, they “get it”, for the most part. And they begin to use language in the same way. However, because we don’t ever, on either side, really acknowledge or understand, this language barrier, it is easy for mistakes to happen. It is easy for perceptions to be different than the writer intended. It is easy to react to what we think we are reading, based on our personal understanding of the language, all the while being completely wrong.

This perception/understanding dilemma is part of the downside of blogging for everyone. It is enormously compounded for people, like members of the FLDS community, who have unacknowledged cultural differences in language from the larger community of outsiders they are interacting with.
In a multi-dimensional interaction these differences would be far more quickly overcome. In the blogosphere that doesn’t happen so easily.
Rather than accuse members of the FLDS community of having persecution complexes, or getting angry at how they respond to what we are saying, and how we are saying ‘it’, perhaps we can each try to better understand the FLDS perspective and experience. If based on a person’s response, we know they have misunderstood our intent, perhaps it would further good communication, and foster a possible trust, to simply re-explain what we are trying to convey. If we are being humorous, using sarcasm, and it is not picked up, explain it. Don’t react to the reaction!

We can each only be responsible for our own behaviors. Even here, on line. But if our real purpose is to help reshape how we understand and interact with the FLDS community, then an excellent starting point is in understanding and overcoming language barriers. Let this be an experience that is a learning one for all of us.

41 comments:

Ron in Houston said...

Saying someone has a "persecution complex" is neither an insult nor a denial of the fact that they may have suffered real persecution in their lives.

However, when you fall into the thinking that everything that happens is because of your particular situation, you've lapsed into a persecution complex.

I wouldn't hesitate to call out a black person who plays the "race" card, so why is it any different to call out someone who plays the polygamist card?

P.S. to Regina - You've done your share of calling out folks playing the "victim card."

rericson said...

Ron, Either you are being deliberately obtuse in order to retain your "sheild", which is what your name calling is. When all else fails, call names.
Or you really just don't "get it". In which case, you need to think through what I said, more consciously objectively.

There is a huge difference in "playing a card" any card, and honest misunderstanding, based on language perception differences.

And if someone "plays the race card" as you call it, especially the first time, rather than react with anger, or disdain, or any other negative reaction, it usually serves the situation better to explore why the "race card" came out in the first place and remediate that aspect.
I have called people on the use of the "victim card" only aafter I have assured myself that the person is aware that it is a distasteful ruse and it is not being 'used' legitimately or through naivette.

Saying someone has a persecution complex is an insult in the way that you use it toward pliggy. And I think it is because you often invalidate the impact his life excperiences have had on his perceptions. I also think you don't understand how literally he takes things that are said, especially in writing. In person he is much better at discernig innuendo and sarcasm. He is not as good here, yet.
And you deliberately ignore the fact that the Rangers, et al bastardized and ignored the law to achieve their goal(s). You have this "ends justifies the means" argument that flies in the face of everything our system of jurisprudence stands for. It's sort of like your fellow Texan with his invasion of Iraq...questionable, probably illegal declaration of war against them...invasion, and, "oops...we didn't find WMDs but they were bad guys anyway, see, we found proof of that after we got here!!!! So it's all good!" NOT!!!!!!!

You're using very scary logic. Or illogic......

Stence said...

Back for just a minute before my work calls me for the day.

I just wanted you to know that in my experience, the nice people I've met who don't show their bias and try not to stare too hard at my dress, far outnumber the ones that don't. The negative ones just make such an impression that it's hard not to cringe when someone comes at you and you don't know what they're going to be like.

I really do like most people and if I met Ron on the street I'd probably smile at him just to see what he'd do back.

I really don't want to fall into all the lawybreaking nonsense with him and I think that time will tell.

BTW God doesn't persecute us. The way I understand it is "There must needs be offenses, but Wo unto them by whom they come." God allows everyone their free agency to do what they will with their life. If someone chooses to hate and persecute it's their choice. God will not take that from them but He will allow them to suffer the consequences.

Ron in Houston said...

Regina

I'll be happy to sit down and discuss whether it was the "ends justify the means" when you show me any evidence that law enforcement had some ulterior "end" in mind.

Yes, lots of folks look down at the FLDS. Yes, lots of folks think we need to drive the Plyg scum from the face of the earth. However, to make the jump that LE acted for those reasons in the face of no real evidence is what I'd call either scary logic or illogical. You're doing nothing more than saying that Long is nothing more than a hater and a liar. Is that fair to him? For all you know he could be the nicest most honest person in Texas yet you paint him with such horrid motives with no evidence to back you up.

You are the one doing the bastardizing here.

rericson said...

Ron, No, I'm not saying Long was deliberately biased or anything of the kind.
I believe that most of the people involved REALLY believed they were doing a good and necessary thing. I think some got caught up in the passion of a few and it became their passion.
I think that some of the ex-FLDS are VERY, VERY good at being believable. I think some of them actually have come to believe their own rewrites of history, making them all the more believable.
I do not think the motives were bad. I don't even think some of the screw ups were thought through. I think they were done with the best of intentions.

The "end" as you call it was to get children out of what they honestly believed was a terrible, awful, potentially life threatening situation. The "end" was to get women out and to a place of safety so they coud have the opportunity to "escape" with help and resources and protection.
I think the intentions were all laudable and commendable and righteous and just.
But they were part of an elaborate house of cards....
ASnd I think some good people got so caught up in the fervor and passion and righteousness of the goal they made some really stupid mistakes...
Not the least of which was cutting corners and moving forward without the substantiation they would have normally required....
In fact, I think if these were not good, caring individuals, they probably would have done a better job of following the law...but they cared so deeply and were so touched by the stories that they moved forward at the first opportunity....

Love of The Truth said...

I have to echo Stence here Regina, there are those that make it bad on you, but I'll tell you, there's lots more people out there who treat me better than they treat most. I have an eye doctor who gives me a hug whenever I come in, loves my ladies and children like his own, as a matter of a fact when the raid went down he was so hoppin mad I had to talk him out of heading down there. I go to a certain Sushi resteraunt when I go shopping in SG and the place erupts with hellos from the cooks, sushi prepares etc. People call me and ask me to come with them because I make it fun for them down there. I find that most people will act a little uncomfortable, but as soon as I smile, say hi, and start up a conversation, there's a huge sigh, a visible relaxation come on them, and it becomes fun. Sure, there's the Ron's and Blues, but you will find that most people are more sensible, most of the time if you break the ice they become warm and very friendly with you. I don't think that's any different than in real life, most people are that way to each other, I go around people and everybody asks me why everyone I pass says hi, and I tell em it's because I have my head up, I look at people and smile. Sure, maybe it's my personality, but you can change to be like that I've seen it. So, no, I think people in general are for live and let live. I've not seen the phenomona you describe so much.

rericson said...

L of T, I'm REALLY glad that's your experience! I wish it was true for everyone.
Did you read the post that "Prof" left on the other thread?

I promise you I didn't dream up the post! I wrote it because I was trying to explain the reason why some of the FLDS folks see ugliness where none is intended in some posts, especially from both Ron and BBlues, both of whom tend to be more jaded and sarcastic in their humor..
But also to explain why many of the FLDS are very leery, too...and whyit is easy for them to sometimes believe things are worse...
Sometimes things are every bit as bad as they seem, but sometimes it is a culture gap in language, and sometimes it is because of so many harsh experiences...
I really didn't dream it up! My comments wwere based on things some folks have said...or that I have observed!
But I am glad there is another side tot he story!!! A better side!!!!!

Love of The Truth said...

Regina,

You don't have to defend yourself against me, I know those stories are true, I was just telling you that it's not always like that, I've had bad experiences as well, I just chose to remember the good ones. :) I surely don't accuse you of making anything up.

Ron in Houston said...

especially from both Ron and BBlues, both of whom tend to be more jaded and sarcastic in their humor..

Well, sometimes coming up with jaded and sarcastic things to say takes a lot of work.

One area where Blues and I agree is in not cutting religion any slack. Don't try to tell me how pure and holy you are, show me.

I've seen it on your board, one of your lovely ladies said something to the effect of "well, I feel like I'm casting pearls...." Do they think I'm stupid and don't know the part about "before swine?" The arrogance and contempt necessary to make a statement like "I'm casting pearls" shows the true character of the person who made the statement. Neither pure nor holy if you ask me.

BTW Regina - what about the double standard, you call me out on saying things like someone having a "persecution complex" yet implying I'm a swine is acceptable?

Of course, I did ask Pliggy very nicely for some pig pictures.

rericson said...

Ron, Honestly, do you look for things to nit pick?
I was trying to give folks a better understanding of the genesis of some of the apprehension or misunderstandings that sometimes occur...
Believe me, the folks from the FLDS community that post on these blogs are not dolts!
They just don't deal in the everyday parlance of you or me...but most of them are picking it up...but sometimes things break down....
I remember reading the comment and being unsure of the context, or intent so I left it alone....

And, I do understand where and why you sometimes read it as a "persecution complex"...I just think sometimes you are misreading things...
Did you ever learn about simple and complex language in college? It's not a reflection of intelligence, but it is a reflection of cognition and complexities...
And it's a phenomenom seen everywhere, across socio-economic strata...
I'm not calling anyone stupid, as you said on another blog...I am recognizing that we are building foundations for long term communication across cultures and think that we have to take care to really understand....and not make assumptions about understanding....

Ron in Houston said...

Love of Truth said:

Sure, there's the Ron's and Blues...

Give it a rest will ya. Seems I recall you were the source of the arrogant and hateful comment of "casting pearls."

Perhaps Ms. Plank needs to look around before talking about folks specks.

rericson said...

Ron, Call me dense...
I didn't "get" the last line of your last post....

"Perhaps Ms. Plank needs to look around before talking about folks specks."

Ron in Houston said...

Regina

I had the head lice treated, honest, there's no reason to pick nits....

Honestly, if I want to insult someone, I'm not going to say they have a persecution complex.

You, because of your background, see it as an insult.

Meanwhile you let things like Pliggy calling Judge Walther a "hater" and a "bigot" go totally unchallenged.

My neighbor grew up with Judge Walther, knows her well, and has spoken with her after the raid. They report that she is a great person and a wonderful friend. Not at all like the evil witch of the west portrayal that so often goes wholly unchallenged by you and many other folks.

If only I had a dime for all the times I've been called a "hater" or "bigot" by some pure and holy FLDS adherent.

Ron in Houston said...

In Matthew 7:3 Jesus said:

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Matthew 7:4:

How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

Matthew 7:5:

You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Ron in Houston said...

Regina

Actually, I probably should have used "moat" and "beam" rather than speck and plank since I think the FLDS use the King James Version of the Bible.

rericson said...

Ron,
Please don't pretend to not realize that people wear all kinds of hats.
I have a judge (ret) who lives three doors down from me. He is a wonderful friend and neighbor. On the other hand, he was a prick on the bench! He was the type that made the law up as he went along, banking on the fact that most folks couldn't afford an appeal....

One of the Judges in Luzerne County who was recently arrested for kickbacks involving a juvenile facility, along with his wife Roseanne, are good friends of mine...did I know what he was into? Absolutely not! Is he guilty? You betcha! Is he a great person to go out to dinner with...yup! would he give you the shirt off his back?...well he created the illusion he would...

So what is your point?
Walther hasn't done as much work as I have at trying to understand the FLDS people, and she is about to make decisions that will impact individuals and the entire community for many years to come....
Doesn't sound like someone I'd want to bother calling a good friend......

When folks call Walther a hater or a bigot, I take it that they are expressing their feelings about her behavior. About what she appears to be in their eyes, based on that same behavior. I call her that.
I've been involved in the courts my entire adult life in multiple aspects...
In this day and age, any judge who hears pendancy cases and makes the kinds of decisions I watched her make should be disbarred!
Her behavior on the bench is appalling!!!!!!
She may be great fun at a barbeque, but I'd like see her on the spit......

rericson said...

Ron,
Well, you can tell which version I use, eh?

Ron in Houston said...

In this day and age, any judge who hears pendancy cases and makes the kinds of decisions I watched her make should be disbarred!

And I'm certain you sat through all that testimony so that you can make an informed decision, huh?

Her behavior on the bench is appalling!!!!!!

Perhaps you should rephrase this... Just because you don't like her rulings does not make her "behavior" appalling. For me, criticizing a Judge's behavior depends on how they follow judicial ethical rules.

If she were such a horrible judge who "hates" the FLDS so much, then why didn't she hold Theresa Steed in direct contempt for directly refusing to an order to answer a question?

However, Ms. Beam perhaps you need to look around before you talk about Judge Walther's mote.

rericson said...

Ron,
She allowed 400+ children to be taken from their homes with no evidence of imminent danger. That, all by itself, flies in the face of everything we know to be good practice for children and their families. She allowed them to remain in custody, be seperated from siblings, and subjected to horrfic trauma in excess of two monts. She was going to allow it for six months.
She accepted boiler plate service plans that hurt families. She new families had been coerced into signing them and she allowed them...
And we won't even go into the travesty of what she allowed Natalie Malonis to get away with...
She is the one who allowed Malonis to back door all the inappropriate, not on point, unrelated documents, into evidence so as to allow them to get into the hands of the pubic as a preemptory, end run , around due process and the test of the warrants...
Give me a break....
Ron, this woman no more belongs on the bench that Donald Duck....
She's making a mockery out of the law. And she is hurting children and their families...and to make matters worse, she is in a unique position to have done some good...but she has fostered this circus from day one....

Ron in Houston said...

Actually, Donald Duck has a pretty good judicial temperament compared to some judges I know.

Despite how much you disagree with Judge Walther's rulings, has it ever dawned on you that perhaps she's just a person doing her job and calling it the way she see's it?

Trying to turn her into a characterization or to imply that she's stupid, corrupt, or what not seems like evil character assassination to me.

rericson said...

Ron, When you sit in a position of power over the lives of children and families it is your job to know what constitutes good planning,including evidenced based services and practices. It is your job to be culturally aware and informed, if not competent, about the people whose lives you are reviewing.
Further, she passed on a piss poor warrant, twice.
Further, she approved boiler plate planning...further, and further...
She has no right to be nothing more than a gum snapper in her job...
And that is a kind characterization.....

As you say, I'm not giving her a free pass...she doesn't deserve one...
Judges don't get free passes to screw up on the bench...period!

I'd love to tell your friends what a swell friend they have. I'd love to tell her some of the stories of hell that families are still going through from her decisions...little children who haven't slept all night since last April...four and five year olds with anxiety disorders...teenaged girls with PTSD because of the types of "exams" they had to submit to.....
Ron, you want to advocate for children? Advocate that each and every judge or master that hears juvenile cases in the state of Texas be REQUIRED to have comprehensive training in cultural competencies and best practices for children and families!!!!!!

Thomas said...

I read that sixty years ago if you asked most white people if Blacks were well treated most of them would have said yes. Today most whites agree that Blacks were badly treated sixty years ago. Ron, persecution ocuures because too many people fail to recognize persecution when it occures. Some of us recognize it today. In sixty years, you will do the same.

RIchard Endwright said...

Regina said:
"I'd love to tell your friends ...teenaged girls with PTSD because of the types of "exams" they had to submit to....."

Please state what these exams were, who did them, and the source of your information. Thank you.

TxBluesMan said...

Regina,

You don't want to give Judge Walther a 'free pass' but you'll give child molesters one?

How many registered sex offenders are from the FLDS?

Warren Jeffs, prophet.
David Bateman.
Vergel Jessop.
Kelly Fischer.
Rodney Holm.
John Jessop.
Daniel Barlow.

Do I need to go on? All of these have been convicted for the sexual abuse of children. There are currently 12 men indicted.

Is it persecution when the members keep going to court and keep getting convicted? Or is it felonious behavior?

Pliggy said...

Only two of those are legit, but, I wonder how many there are from Blues tribe....

TxBluesMan said...

LOL.

They were still convicted...

They are still sex offenders...

Seems legitimate to me...

Pliggy said...

Ron, since you did see Matthew 7:5, did you notice 7:6?

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

I say ONLY if the shoe fits, wear it. Do you feel condemned? No one called you a swine explicitly, you picked it up and splattered it on your own face. In fact, it is more true that you "turned around" and used it to imply LOTT was slandering you specifically.

My very first post on my blog explains why the FLDS were not outspoken. We were taught early on that you are condemned by learning the truth and not living it. "Where much is given, much is required" as the saying goes, and that is the "pearl" we speak of. What we consider holy. It is better not to speak than to have those you speak to use what you say to "rend" you. The testimony I have of my best friend is HOLY to me. Maybe you can understand, but I have my doubts.

Pliggy said...

"Seems legitimate to me..."

Not surprising. All but two are still married to their "victim", except of course, the man who was convicted of Rape for saying "Do you take this man to be your husband of your own free will and choice?"

TxBluesMan said...

LOL,

Not legally, they weren't.

You can't be a legal third or fourth wife, and without a legal marriage, there is no defense to the child molestation that those men committed.

mhojho said...

http://www.now.org/nnt/spring-2001/nativeamerican.html

here is a list of the wonderful people who are all part of the txbluesman club

Alden Dee Yelloweagle(spiritual leader of the native american church)

William Isaiah Killian

Dustin G french

catolster David Edward

Daniel W Redhorn

John Elder Roberts

All convicted native american sex abusers

sorry blues you asked for that!!

Ron in Houston said...

Pliggy

To say to anyone "I feel like I'm casting pearls" means nothing more than talking to you is like talking to swine.

Well, I feel like I'm casting pearls but Ron's holy book says:

"Give not that which is holy unto the idiots, neither cast ye your pearls before morons, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

Now, do you feel condemned? Huh?

rericson said...

You all make me feel like I have a pack of squabbling children in a minivan.

Please, this is taking on a life of it's own that is nuts!

Pearls before swine.
Age before beauty.....

In the real world we laugh at those comments when we make them, or they are made toward us...

Let it go!

Ron in Houston said...

Pliggy

Yeah, I understand. In our little minds we define what is holy. Our reality is what we make it.

Personally, I know that a pile of crap is the ultimate in holiness. What appears to be waste is the perfect food for that which sustains us. It is a divine wonder to behold.

But then again, having read Ron's Holy Book, I still feel like I'm casting pearls....

rericson said...

Blues,
In my book, judges don't get free passes. At least not on much. And certainly not on issues of the magnitude and impact that Walther had/has in front of her.

Comparing her bad behavior, lack of knowledge, and appearance of bias, to any group of anything, other than other judges, is an apples and oranges argument. And it has nothing to do with the issue of whether she can fairly hear a contest of warrants she approved.

And more on topic, you asked " Is it persecution when the members keep going to court and keep getting convicted? Or is it felonious behavior?"
Well, personally, I think it's a reflection of bad law, lack of understanding of cultural differences, and a failure on the part of the state to proactivly and appropriately engage the leadership in the community to move toward a resolution that everyone is comfortable with.

TxBluesMan said...

mhojho,

I'm impressed. You found six out of a population of 2.5 million, or 4.1 million if you include mixed bloods?

I just listed 7 out of a sect of what, 10,000?

Gee, I wonder in which group the children are more likely to be abused?


Regina,

What bad behavior? What appearance of bias? What has she done or said that smacks of bias, which does not include a judicial ruling that was later found to be in error?

The fact that she ruled against the FLDS does not indicate bias. If such were the case, then 50% of all the parties to any court hearings would have also have a claim of bias.

As to the law? Bad or not, it is still the law. They have an obligation to obey it, and if they don't, the State has an obligation to prosecute them. The State will be perfectly happy to come to an agreement with the FLDS. That agreement would basically be that if they obey the law, they won't get arrested. Unfortunately, what you and the FLDS want is for us to ignore our rights and kowtow to theirs. It ain't goin' happen.

What gives them the right to violate our laws? To molest children, regardless of the 'context' of it in their culture?

They are not special, every other citizen has to obey these laws or suffer the consequences.

rericson said...

Blues, I am not going to relist everything that has already been listed and discussed ad nauseum...

You have your own area(s) of expertise. I have mine. I believe her actions, from the onset through today, have been either extraordinarily biased or extraordinarily incompetent. How she has ruled, what she has approved, the harm she has allowed to be perpetrated on the scale it has, can only come from someone with strong bias or a total disregard of good practices in Children's services and the handling of cases involving the welfare of children and their families.

As for some of your other comments;
I am really glad that the people who actually do work with families and are charged with things like reviews of legislation and regulation, tend to be more open minded than you. Or at least the personna you project on this topic.

RIchard Endwright said...

Regina said:
"I am really glad that the people who actually do work with families and are charged with things like reviews of legislation and regulation, tend to be more open minded than you."

You know Regina, some day you may find yourself in a foxhole, and discover that you are asking Blues for his help, not some of your other "open minded" friends.

TxBluesMan said...

That's only because the 'open-minded' friends tend to head to Canada when the going gets tough...

mhojho said...

"Gee, I wonder in which group the children are more likely to be abused?"

yours!

RIchard Endwright said...

mhojho said:
" 'Gee, I wonder in which group the children are more likely to be abused?' yours!"

Brilliant mhojho. "Gee", let's review your argument.

If it is given that the "yours" is the "not-FLDS," and it is given that the "not yours" is the FLDS, then according to mhojho we can say the following.

1. Groups that are NOT open minded tend to abuse children.

2. Groups that ARE open minded are less likely to abuse children.

3. The FLDS is less likely to abuse children.

4. Therefore, the FLDS is open minded.

Right on mhojho.

Anonymous said...

I think this is an excellent article. Regina did a good job of explaining the subtle nuances of hatred and bigotry that Mormon Fundamentalists must experience every day. It is sad that some Americans think it is acceptable to mistreat certain religious groups. Hating people because they practice an unpopular religion is just as wicked as hating people because of their race.

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First I am a mother, and grandmother....that is probably the single most important aspect of my life. Then I am a family advocate for a large, national advocacy organization. I work primarily in "systems advocay", helping to identify needs and change policies in children's behavioral health. And I love my dogs, my garden, my pond and fish, and trashy murder mysteries and the occasional shot of good scotch.... Fell free to post a note in whatever the most recent entry is...I love meeting new people!

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